Editor's Pick
JULY 16, 2009 11:44AM
Rate: 32
Bezos dreaming of a $9B payday and a Kindle in every backpack
If the Democratic Leadership Council's latest and zaniest education fantasy ever comes true, the phrase, the dog ate my Kindle, will be making our nation's teachers cringe in the near future.The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) has a new proposal that they think will only cost $9B. A Kindle in every child's backpack is the latest mantra from the group with um, big ideas and a controversial wiki page.
Of course, they assume that every school-child has a backpack. In the DLC's own backyard, Washington DC, almost 25% of school age children ages 5-17 live below the 2007 poverty threshold. Louisiana and Arkansas are not far behind. School backpacks are probably not high on the must-have list for many of those families.
The purpose of the Kindle proposal boiled down from 3000 pages of rhetoric is simply this. Technology is the future. Text books are static. E-text books can be up to the minute smart. Teachers can use Kindle to better teach the kids. Everyone is happy and Amazon makes a giant mountain of money.
The cost analysis they use makes perfect sense if you understand the accounting systems that work for Goldman Sachs or Bank of America. The DLC claims that it will cost $9B now, and save $500M annually down the road. Seems they must be counting on a big discount from Amazon.
DLC underestimates the school age population by a large factor, but then again one of their references for this non-thruthiness proposal is the Colbert Report. With more than 76M school aged children in the United States, a Kindle in every backpack would cost about $22B. Must be that funny math again.
The other problem with the DLC scenario is that it leaves out one tiny little probability that will actually make the cost more like $300B. Kindles are fragile and children are messy.
Have you ever seen what children do with their school backpacks? They make terrific base markers for impromptu ball games. Kids leave all kinds of leftover lunches and snacks in them until the food becomes a science project. And speaking of science projects, I am sure the Kindle wouldn't mind sharing real estate with an oozing bug collection or a pet hamster or two. Never mind the juice boxes.
If the DLC's claim was simply to improve the physical well being of children burdened with 50 pound backpacks, that would make perfect sense. But their underlying claim is that our entire teaching milieu would be pivoted toward a better educated future if we dropped Kindles v. textbooks into the backpacks.
Perhaps, instead, they ought to dream up a scheme where hardworking teachers get decent paychecks and every child gets a cool backpack loaded with lunch and their own ipod.
Comments
It does seem like it is time to move on from the standard textbooks we grew up with - it is so much easier and less expensive to keep digital text current. Some of my 11 yrs olds textbooks are available online but his teacher still insisted they bring the book home as back up which seemed to defeat the purpose of the online version. That said, I know very little about the Kindle but quite a bit about the state of my kids school stuff, even protected by a backpack it takes a beating and it would be interetsing to see if they come up with something school-bus-proof.
Call me a Luddite but this seems like a terrible idea. Won't it kill the market for Twilight book covers?
We give our kids too much homework, if you ask me. When I was a kid, I had little flimsy work books that I brought home (i'm talking under 10 yrsold). Kids today know less than I did when I was their age.
The Kindle, in its current configuration, doesn't seem it would really satisfy the needs of most schoolkids. One, it's not color - the graphics would be poor quality, and the books would appear dull and lifeless to the kids.
Consider this sample page from a textbook: https://curriculumservices.com/Samples/3456%20Social%20Studies/3456%20SS%206%20WT%20Sp%202.gif
and here:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2366672802_ba6ec2f050.jpg
Notice how the color makes it easy to break down the elements on the page, and makes the graphic look really interesting.
Two - the Kindle is also really expensive. This seems more like a way to line Amazon's pockets than a true textb0ok-replacement method that will benefit students.
Great post. I share your skepticism about this idea.
Consider this sample page from a textbook: https://curriculumservices.com/Samples/3456%20Social%20Studies/3456%20SS%206%20WT%20Sp%202.gif
and here:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2366672802_ba6ec2f050.jpg
Notice how the color makes it easy to break down the elements on the page, and makes the graphic look really interesting.
Two - the Kindle is also really expensive. This seems more like a way to line Amazon's pockets than a true textb0ok-replacement method that will benefit students.
Great post. I share your skepticism about this idea.
Right f--ing on!
And the picture could not be more perfect. This calls for Howard Dean like screams. . . .
And the picture could not be more perfect. This calls for Howard Dean like screams. . . .
The kindle needs to age like a fine book.
mamore - I agree, but I think specifically designed netbooks would be more applicable. But then again, I watch the Colbert Report for amusement (and the ever cute Stephen Colbert). These guys didn't do their homework. The Kindle is pretty limited, and fragile.
Moses - yep. And think of all those textbook printers who also print regular books. Whoops.
marcelleqb - they certainly have a lot of books to carry these days for sure.
mad - exactly my thoughts too. what were they thinking? Oh, they weren't.
Roger - thanks. I do love that Jeff photo. It just says so much, any which way you want it to. Where is Howard when you need him?!
MM- it does, indeed.
Moses - yep. And think of all those textbook printers who also print regular books. Whoops.
marcelleqb - they certainly have a lot of books to carry these days for sure.
mad - exactly my thoughts too. what were they thinking? Oh, they weren't.
Roger - thanks. I do love that Jeff photo. It just says so much, any which way you want it to. Where is Howard when you need him?!
MM- it does, indeed.
It's a bone-headed idea for all the reasons you and others have pointed out.
Gad, the bottom of the back pack: putrid yoghurt, with rotten apples.
Arnold is pushing a version of this in California to save money.
Now, tell me, will this be like Halliburton no bid contracts?
Arnold is pushing a version of this in California to save money.
Now, tell me, will this be like Halliburton no bid contracts?
Um, bad idea.
I have a Kindle here on my desk, because I work for a small publisher and I test books on it before we upload them. It's cool, and it's a pain in the ass.
Kindles don't handle pictures, graphics, tables, or charts well at all. They do plain text beautifully. And almost all kids go through several years (hell, my 11-year-old still does) where graphics and color pictures are way more appealing than straight text, and I'm thankful for those graphics for getting them to read at all. Yes, we have all three volumes of the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series, and I was delighted to find books my reluctant reader son wouldn't put down.
And alternate forms of presenting information? Like pie charts? Graphs? Math problems? Color? Captions with arrows pointing to the right thing? Fuggedaboudit. Kindle sucks at that.
It's a cool technology, don't get me wrong. But it is not ready for prime time with school children.
There's also the Fidget Factor. Give kids in class a device with a load of buttons on it to play with. Hmm. That seems like a good idea. How many eight-year-olds will read the text, and how many will mess around with the buttons while the teacher drones on?
And yes, my kids bring home all sorts of crud in their backpacks. Wet shoes. Science projects. Old leaky lunches. Wet coats because it rained in the morning and they don't want to carry it in the afternoon.
They have Nintendo DS players (which I keep in reserve for long plane flights or boring waits in doctor's offices) which I won't let them carry around because they are expensive and they get lost. Just like all those Kindles would.
And... for the kid whose parents can't make the rent, or whose older brother is a junkie--how much would that Kindle get on the black market when someone sells it for cash?
Bad idea. Bad, bad idea.
I have a Kindle here on my desk, because I work for a small publisher and I test books on it before we upload them. It's cool, and it's a pain in the ass.
Kindles don't handle pictures, graphics, tables, or charts well at all. They do plain text beautifully. And almost all kids go through several years (hell, my 11-year-old still does) where graphics and color pictures are way more appealing than straight text, and I'm thankful for those graphics for getting them to read at all. Yes, we have all three volumes of the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series, and I was delighted to find books my reluctant reader son wouldn't put down.
And alternate forms of presenting information? Like pie charts? Graphs? Math problems? Color? Captions with arrows pointing to the right thing? Fuggedaboudit. Kindle sucks at that.
It's a cool technology, don't get me wrong. But it is not ready for prime time with school children.
There's also the Fidget Factor. Give kids in class a device with a load of buttons on it to play with. Hmm. That seems like a good idea. How many eight-year-olds will read the text, and how many will mess around with the buttons while the teacher drones on?
And yes, my kids bring home all sorts of crud in their backpacks. Wet shoes. Science projects. Old leaky lunches. Wet coats because it rained in the morning and they don't want to carry it in the afternoon.
They have Nintendo DS players (which I keep in reserve for long plane flights or boring waits in doctor's offices) which I won't let them carry around because they are expensive and they get lost. Just like all those Kindles would.
And... for the kid whose parents can't make the rent, or whose older brother is a junkie--how much would that Kindle get on the black market when someone sells it for cash?
Bad idea. Bad, bad idea.
L&P,
Nice catch. Logical extension of not NCLB, too; not to mention most the of the edication reforms implemented since the late 1970s. Tough to use a kindle when you don't read well.
For the proposed cost, we could go a long way toward the only PROVEN reform to improve student learning: smaller classrooms, capped at, say, 17. That will take a lot of teachers, more space, yadda, yadda.
The same people who got snowed into thinking that (unfunded) high stakes tests and graduation requirements would be the way to go will swallow this one hook line and sinker. Bezos will provide kindles to a few schools that are already high-perfoming, and a study will follow showing how much stident learning improved. Count on it.
Nice catch. Logical extension of not NCLB, too; not to mention most the of the edication reforms implemented since the late 1970s. Tough to use a kindle when you don't read well.
For the proposed cost, we could go a long way toward the only PROVEN reform to improve student learning: smaller classrooms, capped at, say, 17. That will take a lot of teachers, more space, yadda, yadda.
The same people who got snowed into thinking that (unfunded) high stakes tests and graduation requirements would be the way to go will swallow this one hook line and sinker. Bezos will provide kindles to a few schools that are already high-perfoming, and a study will follow showing how much stident learning improved. Count on it.
I support a more open-source style of e-book, that would allow kids and parents (or school districts that pay for them) to choose which model e-reader they want to use.
For school work, it would make more sense to provide an open source e-book format that would work on a tablet-style laptop or netbook. Then the child would also benefit from having a workstation to write their papers on, do internet research and so forth.
There are a lot of e-readers coming to market soon that will be much cheaper than the Kindle, and will probably be more friendly towards PDF and other open-source book formats. Here's just a sampling:
http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=e+book&invocationType=wl-gadget&searchsubmit=
For school work, it would make more sense to provide an open source e-book format that would work on a tablet-style laptop or netbook. Then the child would also benefit from having a workstation to write their papers on, do internet research and so forth.
There are a lot of e-readers coming to market soon that will be much cheaper than the Kindle, and will probably be more friendly towards PDF and other open-source book formats. Here's just a sampling:
http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=e+book&invocationType=wl-gadget&searchsubmit=
We are too enamored of technology. The quality of content declines as the technology for disseminating it increases. I like your idea. Let's stick with a book, a backpack, and a good teacher. And let's treat teachers like professionals.
Uh....right. Amazon is doing this out of the goodness of their golden little hearts? Don't think so! Does this seem like yet another way to create a have and have not education system? Get real, DLC!
Yeeaaaaarghh!
I know, Howard Dean does it better!
Yeeaaaaarghh!
I know, Howard Dean does it better!
I am finding this conversation really interesting - I think the time for some type of e-reader or netbook has come (I'm not a techie so I have no idea what would be best). I also think there is an total lack of foresight in chosing the Kindle just because it was first (or more likely someone has connections to their lobbyists). I do want to disagree with something that Alcibiades said - I don't believe small classroom size is the ultimate answer. My son started in a small school with a K classroom of 11 students and 1st grade of 16. We moved to a more economically diverse town with larger classrooms and I was terrified to find out that our kids would have 24-26 kids in their class. The things is, they are getting a much better education now. There are many factors involved (good teachers, good principals, etc) but I have never seen the size of their class take away from their education or that of the other children. I believe there are studies from countries such as China where they have high academic success and larger classrooms. Sorry to get off topic...
It's a great idea. Not just about opening things up--which it is--but about being environmentally friendly. Give them backpacks too. Of course. Pay teachers well too. Of course. Will make the nation seems a bit cybernetically united; but we'll all like that.
As a parent of recent college grads, I'm intrigued by the idea of using Kindle for e-textbooks. If you could save have the price of every text, you'd pay for the Kindle in a single semester.
Suzn - the underlying concept perhaps not so much, but their idea, the way the proposed it, absolutely. they don't get out much.
Stellaa - I forgot about the yogurt! Arnie is wrong. It won't save money for quite some time and even then, perhaps not. I think they picked the Kindle as a "why not" rather than on purpose. The whole paper reads like that. Really, those DLC people don't get out much. Netbooks might work, if one was designed for this, but yeah, it could be a Halliburton, couldn't it?!
froggy - great comment. I left out the part about Kindle having problems with wireless connections too. There is no ability to use Kindle in Alaska (according to Amazon's coverage map) and there are pockets where there is no coverage in guess where? Yep. The poorer states. In addition, Kindle is pretty limited. It is a terrific tool for a reader. It lacks any real graphics capability, and forget foraging into the web. Useless. Your iPhone is a better choice. And talk about fidget! Great point.
Alcibiades Today - thank you! You pretty much summarized the DLC paper. They do propose testing it in "some schools" which we know will be the ones already on the edge of using tools like this, and who have the funds to support it. Yikes. Yeah, it did remind me of an extension of the NCLB (which made my head hurt). Aren't they over that already?
mad - I also support it, but every kid needs one, and they have to be designed way more broadly than a Kindle, and not to mention sturdier and with colors etc. It is going to happen eventually, but first, we really have to pay teachers a decent wage and make sure that kids have a school to go to - like that kid who was at Obama's State of Union, who wanted a real school building instead of the craptrap thing the students had. There are more of those all over this country.
Anyway, yes, yes. I agree. I am looking forward to more e-readers coming to market.
Steve - why are you not in O's cabinet?! Seriously. (and I am not talking about Oprah). I wish you were.
Shiral - Howie does it really loud! But seriously, I couldn't tell from the paper whether they actually had any discussions with Bezos. I am thinking they did not. So this might be a little surprise for him.
mamoore - discuss away! I was hoping people would debate this.
Stellaa - I forgot about the yogurt! Arnie is wrong. It won't save money for quite some time and even then, perhaps not. I think they picked the Kindle as a "why not" rather than on purpose. The whole paper reads like that. Really, those DLC people don't get out much. Netbooks might work, if one was designed for this, but yeah, it could be a Halliburton, couldn't it?!
froggy - great comment. I left out the part about Kindle having problems with wireless connections too. There is no ability to use Kindle in Alaska (according to Amazon's coverage map) and there are pockets where there is no coverage in guess where? Yep. The poorer states. In addition, Kindle is pretty limited. It is a terrific tool for a reader. It lacks any real graphics capability, and forget foraging into the web. Useless. Your iPhone is a better choice. And talk about fidget! Great point.
Alcibiades Today - thank you! You pretty much summarized the DLC paper. They do propose testing it in "some schools" which we know will be the ones already on the edge of using tools like this, and who have the funds to support it. Yikes. Yeah, it did remind me of an extension of the NCLB (which made my head hurt). Aren't they over that already?
mad - I also support it, but every kid needs one, and they have to be designed way more broadly than a Kindle, and not to mention sturdier and with colors etc. It is going to happen eventually, but first, we really have to pay teachers a decent wage and make sure that kids have a school to go to - like that kid who was at Obama's State of Union, who wanted a real school building instead of the craptrap thing the students had. There are more of those all over this country.
Anyway, yes, yes. I agree. I am looking forward to more e-readers coming to market.
Steve - why are you not in O's cabinet?! Seriously. (and I am not talking about Oprah). I wish you were.
Shiral - Howie does it really loud! But seriously, I couldn't tell from the paper whether they actually had any discussions with Bezos. I am thinking they did not. So this might be a little surprise for him.
mamoore - discuss away! I was hoping people would debate this.
this is a foolish waste of money. i support the one laptop per child project because kids should get good tools for learning. kindle is just a glorified ipod. why would i want something like that when a laptop gets me access to all the books in the public domain?
where is howard when you need him?
where is howard when you need him?
When I saw this title I thought to myself, "that's going to be awfully "wick"ed coming out the other end. Talk abut see spot run. Personally, I want a kindleabra so I can light up and support my breasts as I read.
You know, I'm sick of this Technology Will Fix Everything mantra that took hold most noticeably in the 1990s when the Internet finally made it big. It can do a lot of stuff, but I keep hearing about how it's going to make my health care better, yadda yadda, and really what you see is this: new technology costs a lot of money, and because people think it's going to fix everything, they forget that their business practices have to be created or remolded to make the technology work. So you blow the money, and it creates new problems that weren't there before, and MAYBE fixes some of the old ones, but then guess what? Technology almost instantly gets old, and then you have to throw more money at it. I have so many problems with this idea, that I've pretty much worked myself into a complete frenzy. I shudder to think how many Kindles my kid would go through during her first few months at school.
Oh, and by the way, I have this eBook from the 90s that I LOVE, but publishers did not discount the books ONE PENNY for my ebook, and I bought a total of ONE electronic book because of it. I went nuts on the open content on Gutenberg instead. But my point is, if people think publishers are going to take one for the team here, they will be sadly disappointed. They forget that new editions are released all the time in order to make some more money.
I bet if I was holding a Kindle in my hand right now, which, no doubt all those DLC folks were doing when they agreed to this, I would ooh and ahh and forget all the stuff I ever wrote here. Pretty pretty Kindle. I wonder if they asked any teachers about this stuff?
I could go on and on, because you've touched a big screaming nerve with me. I love technology. I love the idea of electronic books. But I can't get away from the fact that all the people that seek refuge in the library and in the reading materials they find there are not going to be able to afford this stuff, and it breaks my heart.
Oh, and by the way, I have this eBook from the 90s that I LOVE, but publishers did not discount the books ONE PENNY for my ebook, and I bought a total of ONE electronic book because of it. I went nuts on the open content on Gutenberg instead. But my point is, if people think publishers are going to take one for the team here, they will be sadly disappointed. They forget that new editions are released all the time in order to make some more money.
I bet if I was holding a Kindle in my hand right now, which, no doubt all those DLC folks were doing when they agreed to this, I would ooh and ahh and forget all the stuff I ever wrote here. Pretty pretty Kindle. I wonder if they asked any teachers about this stuff?
I could go on and on, because you've touched a big screaming nerve with me. I love technology. I love the idea of electronic books. But I can't get away from the fact that all the people that seek refuge in the library and in the reading materials they find there are not going to be able to afford this stuff, and it breaks my heart.
Oy. Another negative, as if you need another negative, is that people actually read differently from a screen than they do from paper or books. Studies like this one http://comjnl.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/31/5/457
show that reading comprehension is decreased reading from a screen as compared with reading from paper.
Then again, I live in Texas, and I'm not sure it'd be a bad thing if the kids missed every other word that's crammed into our textbooks.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124753078523935615.html
show that reading comprehension is decreased reading from a screen as compared with reading from paper.
Then again, I live in Texas, and I'm not sure it'd be a bad thing if the kids missed every other word that's crammed into our textbooks.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124753078523935615.html
Most of these problems could easily be overcome. I would hope that children under the age of 10 or so aren't expected to take any text books home with them at night, so why would we expect them to take these home?
If we're going to buy tens of millions of these things, then I'm sure Amazon or Sony could be convinced to do a redesign to make their reader water/rancid yogurt proof and with a bit harder shells.
A kill-switch is easy enough to build into any networked device nowadays so that if a school owned reader is stolen, lost, sold on the black market, etc. a school's IT department can render it a useless brick.
It's a great idea in abstract. I wouldn't trust congress with it though.
If we're going to buy tens of millions of these things, then I'm sure Amazon or Sony could be convinced to do a redesign to make their reader water/rancid yogurt proof and with a bit harder shells.
A kill-switch is easy enough to build into any networked device nowadays so that if a school owned reader is stolen, lost, sold on the black market, etc. a school's IT department can render it a useless brick.
It's a great idea in abstract. I wouldn't trust congress with it though.
The people who really need to be involved in this debate are educational technology specialists. I happen to know one... my son uses a keyboard device called an AlphaSmart (my son is dyslexic... 'nother long story). I've had many chats with my son's special ed teacher and the district technology specialist about this or that device, what they do, what they don't do, and so on.
What I've learned is that technology specialists are very careful NOT to name specific devices. Instead, they describe the task that the device needs to help the child to do. For example, electronic book reader with graphic capability, keyboard input device with word recognition software, and so on. Because the device market changes all the time, there is a real danger with getting fixated on the device and not on the specific task or the child's abilities.
It's something that I wouldn't have understood unless I'd been through it. Have any of these people proposing Kindles in every backpack actually looked critically at the problem they're trying to solve? And then, evaluate all the tools available for cost, durability, ability to do the task, etc.? I would guess not.
My son's education plan specifies that he needs a keyboard input device with word recognition software, NOT an AlphaSmart Neo.
What I've learned is that technology specialists are very careful NOT to name specific devices. Instead, they describe the task that the device needs to help the child to do. For example, electronic book reader with graphic capability, keyboard input device with word recognition software, and so on. Because the device market changes all the time, there is a real danger with getting fixated on the device and not on the specific task or the child's abilities.
It's something that I wouldn't have understood unless I'd been through it. Have any of these people proposing Kindles in every backpack actually looked critically at the problem they're trying to solve? And then, evaluate all the tools available for cost, durability, ability to do the task, etc.? I would guess not.
My son's education plan specifies that he needs a keyboard input device with word recognition software, NOT an AlphaSmart Neo.
you can see more about the one laptop per child project here:
http://laptop.org
http://laptop.org
A .pdf reading ebook reader with wifi that is splashproof and can handle a 5 foot fall onto concrete would be an ideal replacement for the textbook. A few caveats: 1) schools would need to be rewired to accomodate the AC plugs; 2) some kind of student responsibility system would have to be built in--either a student would have to put up a refundable deposit or a promise of the hours of work needed to replace it.
That said, CD-ROM versions of textbooks have been around at least ten years. For most middle class kids, that could take the place of take-home textbooks (and reduce the number of excuses for not having homework). Teachers need to get into the electronic revolution.
That said, CD-ROM versions of textbooks have been around at least ten years. For most middle class kids, that could take the place of take-home textbooks (and reduce the number of excuses for not having homework). Teachers need to get into the electronic revolution.
...and the price for the actual devices would be the tip of the iceberg. Just imagine how much would be spent on content.
Call me a curmudgeon, but i think that in many cases technological solutions just do the same thing at a much higher cost (and I'm in the technology industry).
Call me a curmudgeon, but i think that in many cases technological solutions just do the same thing at a much higher cost (and I'm in the technology industry).
Thank you for writing and sharing this. Very interesting.
I wonder why they don't get the kids something cheaper, more resilient, and useful like the OLPC project's XO laptop.
http://laptop.org/en/
This little critter has many uses, is run on open source soft ware, is difficult to break, has a low street market value, and is designed for young people.
I wonder why they don't get the kids something cheaper, more resilient, and useful like the OLPC project's XO laptop.
http://laptop.org/en/
This little critter has many uses, is run on open source soft ware, is difficult to break, has a low street market value, and is designed for young people.
I'm with Moses Mendoza on this topic: a fellow Luddite. Seems like a death knoll for musty books - a favorite smell - and the dark mystery of old libraries. It makes perfect sense, this progression to new technology, and I hate it.
Moses M, I bet there will be a market for themed Kindle covers.
Moses M, I bet there will be a market for themed Kindle covers.
Don't these things require an internet connection for downloading? Or a computer for syncing? Doesn't this eliminate all households that lack computers or internet and all schools that are hurting for computers? Plus, e-readers are updated every year or so - who pays for replacements to keep the device current for all students to ensure compatibility with the texts?
They're really starting at the backend of the mule on this one. There are many other places $9B can be spent.
They're really starting at the backend of the mule on this one. There are many other places $9B can be spent.
I taught for 25 years, elementary and high school.
A major cost for a department or grade is the cost of replacing text books. I said replacing, not investing in new sets. Books are trashed, written on, torn up, walked away from as at the end of the year, left in lockers.
And those books (when I retired 15 years ago) were around 20.00 each.
Unless the kids can take ownership (and who knows if that will work), or if the parents buy the Kindle the outcome might be better.
Also, as indicated in other postings here, the Kindle is limited, tho I have one (well, my wife's), and I love it.
But not for the kids. And not paid for by taxpayers.
A major cost for a department or grade is the cost of replacing text books. I said replacing, not investing in new sets. Books are trashed, written on, torn up, walked away from as at the end of the year, left in lockers.
And those books (when I retired 15 years ago) were around 20.00 each.
Unless the kids can take ownership (and who knows if that will work), or if the parents buy the Kindle the outcome might be better.
Also, as indicated in other postings here, the Kindle is limited, tho I have one (well, my wife's), and I love it.
But not for the kids. And not paid for by taxpayers.
This sounds like one of those programs that need to be thought out a little more, but the overall concept has merit.
I, too, support paying our teachers a much higher salary and giving them better respect. After all, they are one of the keys to our children’s future.
- rated for supporting better education
I, too, support paying our teachers a much higher salary and giving them better respect. After all, they are one of the keys to our children’s future.
- rated for supporting better education
They had better be made of some indestructable titanium and bullet proof glass. All one needs to do is look at kids iPods and cell phones to see how well (not) they take care of them. On the upside, there will be a HUGE black market for them on eBay if this happens.
"Four sell, electric book thingy. Bearly used! Cash only. My cell number is (555) 555-5555! Cawl me! It's like, really, like really knew!
"Four sell, electric book thingy. Bearly used! Cash only. My cell number is (555) 555-5555! Cawl me! It's like, really, like really knew!
Personally, I would have loved this back in school. I always had to endure boring AP English classes back in High School where the teacher would drone on about books I had read years and years ago. When we had to "follow along" in our textbooks, I often placed a far more interesting book INSIDE the book we were "supposed" to be reading, and I'd get lost in my own little worlds. Read "Stranger in a Strange Land" for the first time when I was around 15 years old by doing that through several classes.
If I had a Kindle, I could have read what I wanted to MUCH more easily without the teacher's noticing... ;)
(I did very well in school, I just did it via my own methods. :) )
Rated.
If I had a Kindle, I could have read what I wanted to MUCH more easily without the teacher's noticing... ;)
(I did very well in school, I just did it via my own methods. :) )
Rated.
Yep, bad idea. What the heck would they do if the power grid goes down huh? I mean it's bad enough kids depend on computers and calculators...
bstrangely - netbooks would be a great alternative I think. And yeah. Where the heck is Howie?
O'Really - you really need to package that brain and sell it! You always make me laugh.
angrymom - I am pretty sure they indicated that they used some references from "educators" but that would not necessarily mean real live teachers. pie in the sky stuff. yep. Kindles are pretty. But they are also not robust enough for kids.
meira - I feel like I might know you...... and yeah, there is a difference, I think, reading a book, and reading a screen. Good point.
Existence - Actually, not many kids under 10 don't drag home textbooks these days. So the idea of an electronic thingy would take the weight off their little shoulders, so to speak. I agree that there would need to be something sturdy and kid proof.
froggy - all good points. I am guessing they did not consider that stuff either.
perdidochas and fins2theleft - yes, no one discussed the wiring issues or the costs to upgrade. expensive!
dicea - yep. it will happen, and you're right - cheaper is the way to go. hard to tell who will win out though at this point.
hello - I still like musty books too. I can spend days in the NY public library.
Alicia - yeah, I was wondering about that too. And the initial cost is way more than $9B. There are ares that would need serious infrastructure to even be able to hook up, let alone do it any good speed. Ass backwards, isn't it?!
Martin - too bad they didn't talk to teachers (I am making an assumption) because the stuff you mention is important. Can you imagine having to keep track of those things?
George - Though I made fun of the DLC paper, I do support something like this, but not this. I also support books. And I really want to see teachers make a living wage. The average salary in the US (does not include experience merit pay) is under $50K. Hard to recruit teachers for that much responsibility and that kind of paycheck.
Blue - you always make me laugh too. I can just see that ad on craigslist.
Phaedo - yep. $9B could sure go a long way toward fixing teacher's salaries and boxes of crayons for every kid.
incandescent - someday we should compare notes on doing well in school in spite of never really "being" there. I did the same thing, as did The Geek. He usually got caught. Not me. I once got out of an entire semester in Social Studies by doing an Independent Study on Daniel Boone (using the Fess Parker TV show). I still have the essays. Giggle. But, yes, I agree. It is coming, but not this Kindle crap. I hope.
Buffy - oh yeah. the power grid! our claim to fame in CA. remember the rolling blackouts?! sheesh. the power grid in the country is in pretty sad shape. really good point.
O'Really - you really need to package that brain and sell it! You always make me laugh.
angrymom - I am pretty sure they indicated that they used some references from "educators" but that would not necessarily mean real live teachers. pie in the sky stuff. yep. Kindles are pretty. But they are also not robust enough for kids.
meira - I feel like I might know you...... and yeah, there is a difference, I think, reading a book, and reading a screen. Good point.
Existence - Actually, not many kids under 10 don't drag home textbooks these days. So the idea of an electronic thingy would take the weight off their little shoulders, so to speak. I agree that there would need to be something sturdy and kid proof.
froggy - all good points. I am guessing they did not consider that stuff either.
perdidochas and fins2theleft - yes, no one discussed the wiring issues or the costs to upgrade. expensive!
dicea - yep. it will happen, and you're right - cheaper is the way to go. hard to tell who will win out though at this point.
hello - I still like musty books too. I can spend days in the NY public library.
Alicia - yeah, I was wondering about that too. And the initial cost is way more than $9B. There are ares that would need serious infrastructure to even be able to hook up, let alone do it any good speed. Ass backwards, isn't it?!
Martin - too bad they didn't talk to teachers (I am making an assumption) because the stuff you mention is important. Can you imagine having to keep track of those things?
George - Though I made fun of the DLC paper, I do support something like this, but not this. I also support books. And I really want to see teachers make a living wage. The average salary in the US (does not include experience merit pay) is under $50K. Hard to recruit teachers for that much responsibility and that kind of paycheck.
Blue - you always make me laugh too. I can just see that ad on craigslist.
Phaedo - yep. $9B could sure go a long way toward fixing teacher's salaries and boxes of crayons for every kid.
incandescent - someday we should compare notes on doing well in school in spite of never really "being" there. I did the same thing, as did The Geek. He usually got caught. Not me. I once got out of an entire semester in Social Studies by doing an Independent Study on Daniel Boone (using the Fess Parker TV show). I still have the essays. Giggle. But, yes, I agree. It is coming, but not this Kindle crap. I hope.
Buffy - oh yeah. the power grid! our claim to fame in CA. remember the rolling blackouts?! sheesh. the power grid in the country is in pretty sad shape. really good point.
I'm just getting used to using a friend's Kindle, and I love it. But for kids, nope. Not yet. Next generation, or later, maybe.
Schools should not get into a proprietary format on something like an e-book. I agree that they should think about the problem to solve and maybe they'd conclude a cheap laptop is a better deal.
But text books cost money. At least in college, where you have to pay for them yourself, I was told that the printing costs for relatively small print runs were very high and that is why the average textbook cost $50-80$ (in the 80s, who knows what they cost now). I figure an e-reader would cut the costs dramatically, as well as the weight.
My daughter's school weighed 5th graders backpacks and most of them were over the weight considered acceptable for their age. I certainly remember in high school rationing the textbooks I would take home to deal with the weight issue. That meant deciding what homework I would not be doing. (I was perfectly willing to not do assigned homework).
One presumes a lot of the soggy socks and leaked juice box problem can be solved by decent waterproof sleeves for the device. And yeah, they probably have to be sturdier than what is made for an adult who has paid $300 for the thing.
The current price is way too high. I think an e-reader should cost no more than $100, if not $50.
But text books cost money. At least in college, where you have to pay for them yourself, I was told that the printing costs for relatively small print runs were very high and that is why the average textbook cost $50-80$ (in the 80s, who knows what they cost now). I figure an e-reader would cut the costs dramatically, as well as the weight.
My daughter's school weighed 5th graders backpacks and most of them were over the weight considered acceptable for their age. I certainly remember in high school rationing the textbooks I would take home to deal with the weight issue. That meant deciding what homework I would not be doing. (I was perfectly willing to not do assigned homework).
One presumes a lot of the soggy socks and leaked juice box problem can be solved by decent waterproof sleeves for the device. And yeah, they probably have to be sturdier than what is made for an adult who has paid $300 for the thing.
The current price is way too high. I think an e-reader should cost no more than $100, if not $50.
Oh, it's possible that lower printing costs might increase the number of textbooks available, reducing the stranglehold big states like California and Texas have on the decision of what textbooks get written and marketed.
I am a teacher, but I'm also a young one and I have a few thoughts.
I love books, but they will be replaced with digital media within a few decades - its only a matter of time. Its less expensive and way more easily distributed. Nevermind if you get headaches faster when reading a lit screen than a printed page.
Technology DOES not improve the quality of education especially if the teacher does not know how to use it. And there are so many teachers that resist changing anything they've taught in the last fifty years. BUT technology is a huge part of our world and it is something that needs to become a part of the classroom so that students get a chance to learn to use it to do something OTHER than hang out on facebook and watch youtube videos.
Also technology has a huge benefit in engaging students. If you teach a lesson where the students are doing something with their cell phones they actually WANT to do the lesson. As a teacher you have to fight them to get them to stop, which is just an amazing experience. When I show a six minute youtube video (and there's lots of educational ones out there) they get really excited.
The students all already have ipods and cell phones and graphing calculators that are now capable of wireless communication. We already have to be on an endless watch to keep them from using these things in class. So in that regard the kindle doesn't really bring any new concerns to the table. In fact, if the teacher has the ability to pull up the screen of any kid in the room at any given time (which you can do with anything you can network together) that'd be a huge help rather than a hindrance.
But I do agree, that the kindle is too expensive, fragile, and limited to be of use. If they can get it down to $100 they become cheaper than textbooks. Which cost about $120 a piece these days. Writing tablets (where the students can take notes), graphic abilities, and networking abilities would make such equipment priceless! And I do think that day will arrive someday, but I think its a ways off.
And for the record, smaller class sizes would make a huge difference!! I will concede that a good teacher would do more with a class of 35 than a bad teacher would do with 17. But all teachers will do better than they currently are with smaller classes. My science classes all had 34 students in them. My Algebra I (because it qualified for class size reduction, which is being cancelled next year... cries) was capped at 24. The difference it made was huge!! In a class of 24 I can have a three - five minute one on one session with EVERY student every week. You get to know them so much better. You know where they struggle and where they excel and can accommodate them. Haven't a 20 student class sounds like a dream! Teachers do have a tendency to use large class sizes as an excuse, BUT the truth of the matter is the smaller the class the easier it is to meet EACH child's needs.
The reason the Chinese can be so successful is because educators there are so very respected by the society, by the parents, and by extension the students. Those teachers can lecture for two or three hours straight and those students will not utter a word because they know the consequences if they do not.
Our teachers here are not respected. And you know why they are not. You have ALL had teachers that were just awful (and I don't mean boring - boring teachers can be good teachers). And how many truly spectacular teachers have you had? I would guess it would be a handful. Teachers are not well paid here because they have the ultimate job security. Teachers are PAID in that security. Lawyers and doctors do not get paid well because they went to school for an extra four years. They get paid well because they are in high - risk professions. If they screw up they are finished. Educators will be paid better when they are held accountable for their competency. And as the standard goes up and up - as teachers become more professional they will be more respected and better paid.
In the past when I would tell someone I wanted to be a teacher the response was almost always "Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that?", "Are you sure?", or "But you could do so much more."
Wow! That ended up way longer than I intended. I apologize. But hope its give you all some food for thought.
I love books, but they will be replaced with digital media within a few decades - its only a matter of time. Its less expensive and way more easily distributed. Nevermind if you get headaches faster when reading a lit screen than a printed page.
Technology DOES not improve the quality of education especially if the teacher does not know how to use it. And there are so many teachers that resist changing anything they've taught in the last fifty years. BUT technology is a huge part of our world and it is something that needs to become a part of the classroom so that students get a chance to learn to use it to do something OTHER than hang out on facebook and watch youtube videos.
Also technology has a huge benefit in engaging students. If you teach a lesson where the students are doing something with their cell phones they actually WANT to do the lesson. As a teacher you have to fight them to get them to stop, which is just an amazing experience. When I show a six minute youtube video (and there's lots of educational ones out there) they get really excited.
The students all already have ipods and cell phones and graphing calculators that are now capable of wireless communication. We already have to be on an endless watch to keep them from using these things in class. So in that regard the kindle doesn't really bring any new concerns to the table. In fact, if the teacher has the ability to pull up the screen of any kid in the room at any given time (which you can do with anything you can network together) that'd be a huge help rather than a hindrance.
But I do agree, that the kindle is too expensive, fragile, and limited to be of use. If they can get it down to $100 they become cheaper than textbooks. Which cost about $120 a piece these days. Writing tablets (where the students can take notes), graphic abilities, and networking abilities would make such equipment priceless! And I do think that day will arrive someday, but I think its a ways off.
And for the record, smaller class sizes would make a huge difference!! I will concede that a good teacher would do more with a class of 35 than a bad teacher would do with 17. But all teachers will do better than they currently are with smaller classes. My science classes all had 34 students in them. My Algebra I (because it qualified for class size reduction, which is being cancelled next year... cries) was capped at 24. The difference it made was huge!! In a class of 24 I can have a three - five minute one on one session with EVERY student every week. You get to know them so much better. You know where they struggle and where they excel and can accommodate them. Haven't a 20 student class sounds like a dream! Teachers do have a tendency to use large class sizes as an excuse, BUT the truth of the matter is the smaller the class the easier it is to meet EACH child's needs.
The reason the Chinese can be so successful is because educators there are so very respected by the society, by the parents, and by extension the students. Those teachers can lecture for two or three hours straight and those students will not utter a word because they know the consequences if they do not.
Our teachers here are not respected. And you know why they are not. You have ALL had teachers that were just awful (and I don't mean boring - boring teachers can be good teachers). And how many truly spectacular teachers have you had? I would guess it would be a handful. Teachers are not well paid here because they have the ultimate job security. Teachers are PAID in that security. Lawyers and doctors do not get paid well because they went to school for an extra four years. They get paid well because they are in high - risk professions. If they screw up they are finished. Educators will be paid better when they are held accountable for their competency. And as the standard goes up and up - as teachers become more professional they will be more respected and better paid.
In the past when I would tell someone I wanted to be a teacher the response was almost always "Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that?", "Are you sure?", or "But you could do so much more."
Wow! That ended up way longer than I intended. I apologize. But hope its give you all some food for thought.
I am a kindle lover and I think this is a horrible idea. It just isn't ready for serious educational needs. Just think of the case where you finish reading a book, and then you remember a quote or stat somewhere around the last 2/3rds that you want to find, but you can't quite remember where it is. It can be absurdly hard to find it. I only like my kindle for fiction books that you pretty much just read from cover to cover.
Alicia,
The kindle uses the cell phone data networks to download books from the internet. No need for another account or internet access.
The kindle uses the cell phone data networks to download books from the internet. No need for another account or internet access.
Malusinka,
The effect that CA and TX have on textbooks is overrated. When I stopped teaching 9 yrs ago, we already had semi-custom textbooks for a fairly small state (Alabama). I can't imagine that that reversed since then.
The effect that CA and TX have on textbooks is overrated. When I stopped teaching 9 yrs ago, we already had semi-custom textbooks for a fairly small state (Alabama). I can't imagine that that reversed since then.
Lea - thanks for coming by. I do love the Kindle, hate the price, and would probably get an e-reader at some point, but it would have to be integrated into everything else or it will just be too many gadgets. And I have a hard time letting go of real books.
Malusinka - there certainly would be lots of kinks to work out, including lowering the printing prices of real books!
Kasienda - You comment was not too long. It was perfect. I had hoped teachers would weigh in because the DLC paper seemed to be missing that input. I agree with everything you said. I was wondering if teachers would embrace new technology or if they are resistant. I guess some would and some would only do it if they had no choice. Interesting.
Charles - Good point. I can use a post-it note in books I read today, but how in the world will I do that unless I keep notes separately in a Kindle book?! Interesting. I wonder if there will be an app from Amazon to fix that problem?
Malusinka - there certainly would be lots of kinks to work out, including lowering the printing prices of real books!
Kasienda - You comment was not too long. It was perfect. I had hoped teachers would weigh in because the DLC paper seemed to be missing that input. I agree with everything you said. I was wondering if teachers would embrace new technology or if they are resistant. I guess some would and some would only do it if they had no choice. Interesting.
Charles - Good point. I can use a post-it note in books I read today, but how in the world will I do that unless I keep notes separately in a Kindle book?! Interesting. I wonder if there will be an app from Amazon to fix that problem?
I have a Kindle and like it considerably. It is an adult book. I have read maybe 50 books on it. As someone pointed out, it is bad graphics. Print is OK, but kids, I think, need more pictures.
One of the things I like about real books is the ease of searching and skimming. It is nice to be able to thumb through pages and look at the pictures, read the headings, and skim paragraphs looking for anything and nothing. You can even start at the back and work forward. This is not really easy with the Kindle. The refresh rate is dreadful. There are no page numbers, even, to remember, only some huge number (maybe number of words?).
A really bad feature is the lack of a word search. It could help the Kindle be more like a book if you can page through it looking for something like a short phrase. But, not on my model.
So, what is to keep a kid from reading SiFi in history if he or she has 100 books on the Kindle?
My wife has an Itouch. She likes it a lot. Its scrolling characteristics are fabulous. You can read it in bed in the dark. It has high speed net connections. The color is great. The only disadvantage, Kindle battery life is maybe a week or more if you do not turn on the RF port. I do not think the Itouch can do that.
One of the things I like about real books is the ease of searching and skimming. It is nice to be able to thumb through pages and look at the pictures, read the headings, and skim paragraphs looking for anything and nothing. You can even start at the back and work forward. This is not really easy with the Kindle. The refresh rate is dreadful. There are no page numbers, even, to remember, only some huge number (maybe number of words?).
A really bad feature is the lack of a word search. It could help the Kindle be more like a book if you can page through it looking for something like a short phrase. But, not on my model.
So, what is to keep a kid from reading SiFi in history if he or she has 100 books on the Kindle?
My wife has an Itouch. She likes it a lot. Its scrolling characteristics are fabulous. You can read it in bed in the dark. It has high speed net connections. The color is great. The only disadvantage, Kindle battery life is maybe a week or more if you do not turn on the RF port. I do not think the Itouch can do that.
So far the cost of a Kindle and the cost of leasing a laptop for each student are pretty much equal. (I'm on the school board - we're checking into it.)
Very painful indeed when you spend loads of money in technology and it gets outdated in three years.
Very painful indeed when you spend loads of money in technology and it gets outdated in three years.
about that kindle idea...
This morning, hundreds of Amazon Kindle owners awoke to discover that books by a certain famous author had mysteriously disappeared from their e-book readers. These were books that they had bought and paid for—thought they owned.
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/some-e-books-are-more-equal-than-others/
This morning, hundreds of Amazon Kindle owners awoke to discover that books by a certain famous author had mysteriously disappeared from their e-book readers. These were books that they had bought and paid for—thought they owned.
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/some-e-books-are-more-equal-than-others/
To expand on that idea:
Some teachers resist technology like crazy! The attitude is "Why do I have to learn all this stuff? What I have has always worked just fine!"
Others abuse it horribly - ever heard of death by powerpoint? Powerpoint has in many ways just replaced overhead projectors - they are incredibly ineffective if you don't know how to use it right. I had a student who said he had a math teacher that never left his desk - never faced the class. He did all of his teaching from the computer. Which is quite frankly incredibly sad.
Some teachers embrace it - I know a teacher that always uses iphoto slideshow for his warm up. Biology teacher and he'll have twenty pictures that are timed to be up for about ten seconds each and it will cycle through, and one question "Is this a plant?" He will take roll or get organized while they respond to these questions. He also often has students make "Harry Potter" newspapers about a topic. Basically the students have to write an article about whatever they're studying and embed videos inside it. Once you teach them how to do this it takes them only a few minutes to add this component, but oh boy, does it get them excited about writing an article. Its rather manipulative really! But it works!
Technology has the potential to make learning fun! And learning SHOULD be fun. We remember things better when we're having fun. And that is how it should be used.
Some teachers resist technology like crazy! The attitude is "Why do I have to learn all this stuff? What I have has always worked just fine!"
Others abuse it horribly - ever heard of death by powerpoint? Powerpoint has in many ways just replaced overhead projectors - they are incredibly ineffective if you don't know how to use it right. I had a student who said he had a math teacher that never left his desk - never faced the class. He did all of his teaching from the computer. Which is quite frankly incredibly sad.
Some teachers embrace it - I know a teacher that always uses iphoto slideshow for his warm up. Biology teacher and he'll have twenty pictures that are timed to be up for about ten seconds each and it will cycle through, and one question "Is this a plant?" He will take roll or get organized while they respond to these questions. He also often has students make "Harry Potter" newspapers about a topic. Basically the students have to write an article about whatever they're studying and embed videos inside it. Once you teach them how to do this it takes them only a few minutes to add this component, but oh boy, does it get them excited about writing an article. Its rather manipulative really! But it works!
Technology has the potential to make learning fun! And learning SHOULD be fun. We remember things better when we're having fun. And that is how it should be used.
perdidochas, thank you for that insight. If it uses the cell network then it would have issues in rural areas where cell coverage is not up to date for its use (I live in one such area). So there is still an infrastructure issue to address.
L&P,
No, not only are "they" not over NCLB, "they" believe it can be improved and fixed. hence, the problem is not in the concept, just the execution.
Reminds me of what a colorful football coach said one day when asked about his team's execution. "I'm in favor of it."
No, not only are "they" not over NCLB, "they" believe it can be improved and fixed. hence, the problem is not in the concept, just the execution.
Reminds me of what a colorful football coach said one day when asked about his team's execution. "I'm in favor of it."
No comments:
Post a Comment